tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4366604044123974220.post4316792892647842557..comments2023-11-05T05:49:10.256-05:00Comments on Pittsburgh Sports and Mini Ponies: The Arrogance Of Massholestecmohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03420223532768654748noreply@blogger.comBlogger34125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4366604044123974220.post-71518619654193410012007-12-14T15:39:00.000-05:002007-12-14T15:39:00.000-05:00Ok, now we're getting nit picky. 1. From my perspe...Ok, now we're getting nit picky. <BR/><BR/>1. From my perspective, teams taping for coaching purposes would NOT include filming opponents signals. If it is for coaching purposes, I would assume it would be so that the team's coaches and players can watch the film later that week and see what they were doing wrong. Which IS a common practice. <BR/><BR/>2. Lipreading and video taping are not the Cotterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12004631219654933477noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4366604044123974220.post-57574984171244107922007-12-14T13:27:00.000-05:002007-12-14T13:27:00.000-05:00i don't know why no one brings up the point that i...i don't know why no one brings up the point that if belicheck thought he was smart enough to get away with ILLEGALLY video taping an opponent, then after receiving a letter from the league office to stop doing it, he did it again, why then would he stop now? he may not be dumb enough to video tape again, but you can rest assure that the mindset it takes to flagrantly cheat in the face of your Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4366604044123974220.post-5793439134119629912007-12-14T12:42:00.000-05:002007-12-14T12:42:00.000-05:00"They are not, however, taping other teams signals..."They are not, however, taping other teams signals from unapproved locations. What is gained from that goes far beyond lip reading."<BR/><BR/>You may be right about the location right now because of what happened to the Patriots.... But certainly, teams tape signals from other locations in the stadium...It is a common practice. In a story about the Jets videoing in Gillette last year it was Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4366604044123974220.post-11784787055679487152007-12-14T11:25:00.000-05:002007-12-14T11:25:00.000-05:00Accepted practice or not - as Tec said, lip readin...Accepted practice or not - as Tec said, lip reading is one thing, video taping is another. Our point, or at least mine, is that this gives them an undue advantage, which in my mind is cheating.<BR/><BR/>We are talking about the implications of what and how much is gained, not the method used. Our discussion of the method used is just a vehicle to illustrate our point, which is - video taping Cotterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12004631219654933477noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4366604044123974220.post-69528874698595169632007-12-14T09:53:00.000-05:002007-12-14T09:53:00.000-05:00At last a well thought-out response :-)...But, not...At last a well thought-out response :-)...But, notice, again, you are talking about the "method" used. Which is my entire point. No one argues that the Patriots didn't break a rule. I am 100% against the rule-breaking. It was wrong. But, the results of his rule-breaking was an effort to steal signals for whatever purpose. This is a totally accepted part of the game. If you want to make Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4366604044123974220.post-6830328623472634122007-12-14T09:41:00.000-05:002007-12-14T09:41:00.000-05:00Can we get a reference to that 98% stat?Not being ...Can we get a reference to that 98% stat?<BR/><BR/>Not being a dick...just want to know if its fact or your own assumption.<BR/><BR/>And lip reading is completely different. Its one thing to look at a guy's mouth. Its another to tape his mouth, then having the ability to mechanically zoom in, pause, slow down, piece together. Its just like with the Dolphins/microphone thing. If you hear a guy calltecmohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03420223532768654748noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4366604044123974220.post-5246301047300663802007-12-14T09:34:00.000-05:002007-12-14T09:34:00.000-05:00Stealing Signals article from a couple of years ba...Stealing Signals article from a couple of years back excerpt: NYT<BR/><BR/>"There have been numerous tales of espionage in the National Football League, but the latest attempts by teams to steal another's plays may be the most ingenious, yet strange, of them all: it involves reading lips.<BR/><BR/>Lip reading is a tactic some coaches and scouts are increasingly employing to capture another Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4366604044123974220.post-14375163984018598442007-12-14T09:23:00.000-05:002007-12-14T09:23:00.000-05:00You guys are all making my point. It is the metho...You guys are all making my point. It is the method used and not the act itself which is a violation of the rules. i.e. no marked uniform, wrong location etc. (BTW, that rule is clearly meant for that game.)Is it cheating to film the other teams' signals? Is it even against the rules? The answer is "No." It is perfectly within the rules to use any video of any game of any act as long as it wasn'tAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4366604044123974220.post-74787025104870246892007-12-13T19:28:00.000-05:002007-12-13T19:28:00.000-05:00Here's a pic showing the spy, in case you needed t...Here's a pic showing the spy, in case you needed to see that he wasnt wearing league-approved videographer garb and wasnt in a league-approved place.<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://psamp.blogspot.com/2007/09/just-one-more-reason-to-despise-new.html" REL="nofollow">Click the hell outta it</A>tecmohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03420223532768654748noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4366604044123974220.post-91187407691434714202007-12-13T19:25:00.000-05:002007-12-13T19:25:00.000-05:00Sam - Killer holding-penalty reference. That sums ...Sam - Killer holding-penalty reference. That sums it up perfectly.<BR/><BR/>Anon Patriots fan - I have no idea how you <B>clearly</B> know the meaning of the rule that encompasses all games. And teams exchange videos that aren't illegally obtained. All videotapers have specific places where they can stand, and must wear specific colors. The Patriots spy was in street clothes (compared to the tecmohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03420223532768654748noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4366604044123974220.post-61791554685932738292007-12-13T19:15:00.000-05:002007-12-13T19:15:00.000-05:00I am not a Steelers or Patriots fan, but someone l...I am not a Steelers or Patriots fan, but someone linked me to this article and said read the comments, and I just couldn't resist -<BR/><BR/>Is this anonymous guy really arguing that the rule is only meant to prevent the use of the illegally taped video during the same game in which the video was taken, and that taping is otherwise okay so long as it is used, say, in the second meeting between Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4366604044123974220.post-31251255153422668332007-12-13T18:49:00.000-05:002007-12-13T18:49:00.000-05:00Incorrect. The latter part of the rule is clear - ...Incorrect. The latter part of the rule is clear - <I>"...including without limitation videotape machines, telephone tapping, or bugging devices, or any other form of electronic devices <B>that might aid a team during the playing of a game."</B></I><BR/><BR/>It does not say that might aid a team during the playing of THAT game in which it is shot. If it can be used to prepare for and play in <B>A<Cotterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12004631219654933477noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4366604044123974220.post-56800815440373493832007-12-13T18:30:00.000-05:002007-12-13T18:30:00.000-05:00At least get the person right - that was Cotter's ...At least get the person right - that was Cotter's argument. Nice job ignoring everything that I said though.<BR/><BR/>It clearly states that any area "accessible to a club staff member" is off limits to videotape from. So if the club staff member is in a place videotaping the signals the place they are standing <I>is accessible to them</I>. And yes they exchange film. I also doubt the Samhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11281661636725229689noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4366604044123974220.post-6352987446934025502007-12-13T17:50:00.000-05:002007-12-13T17:50:00.000-05:00"Any use by any club at any time, from the start t..."Any use by any club at any time, from the start to the finish of any game in which such club is a participant, of any communications or information-gathering equipment, other than Polaroid-type cameras or field telephones, shall be prohibited, including without limitation videotape machines, telephone tapping, or bugging devices, or any other form of electronic devices that might aid a team Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4366604044123974220.post-50649605327291766742007-12-13T12:19:00.000-05:002007-12-13T12:19:00.000-05:00One last thing before I have to get some real work...One last thing before I have to get some real work done-<BR/><BR/>The more I thought about it, the holding example was the perfect example of what should happen when you cheat.<BR/><BR/>First, you lose ten yards, which affects your chances at future success. Like losing a Number 1 draft pick. All good so far.<BR/><BR/>Then, you also forfeit the play. So you lose all gains that may have resultedSamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11281661636725229689noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4366604044123974220.post-33161564705865931452007-12-13T12:11:00.000-05:002007-12-13T12:11:00.000-05:00Anonymous - I'm breaking my own word here saying I...Anonymous - I'm breaking my own word here saying I was done with the subject. <BR/><BR/>However, I don't think this is a jealousy thing at all. <BR/><BR/>I can only speak for myself, but I was not aware of any taping by the Dolphins last year. Nonetheless, now that I am - that is cheating as well. Any violation of a rule is cheating. Using it to gain a competitive advantage is cheating, and they Cotterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12004631219654933477noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4366604044123974220.post-57528873355229278992007-12-13T12:08:00.000-05:002007-12-13T12:08:00.000-05:00If you gave me a real name to call you, I'd call y...If you gave me a real name to call you, I'd call you it. Hiding behind "anonymous" results in me having to make one up for you.<BR/><BR/>Bringing up other examples doesn't change what the Patriots did. In your holding,clipping example, if I knew a very successful player had been getting away with clipping and holding his entire career through some special technique, I would view him as a lesser Samhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11281661636725229689noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4366604044123974220.post-15549601328319941222007-12-13T12:04:00.000-05:002007-12-13T12:04:00.000-05:00during the playing of a game.It doesn't say during...<I>during the playing of a game.</I><BR/><BR/>It doesn't say during the playing of said game. It means <B>any</B> game.<BR/><BR/>The tapes were used to gain a competitive advantage in future games.<BR/><BR/>How is that not cheating?<BR/><BR/>And please change the subject to stepping out of bounds or not tucking shirts in again. Really. It hasn't been done enough.tecmohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03420223532768654748noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4366604044123974220.post-28941795419490883222007-12-13T11:53:00.000-05:002007-12-13T11:53:00.000-05:00"Any use by any club at any time, from the start t..."Any use by any club at any time, from the start to the finish of any game in which such club is a participant, of any communications or information-gathering equipment, other than Polaroid-type cameras or field telephones, shall be prohibited, including without limitation videotape machines, telephone tapping, or bugging devices, or any other form of electronic devices that might aid a team Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4366604044123974220.post-40350161162124593292007-12-13T11:41:00.000-05:002007-12-13T11:41:00.000-05:00Just noticed the memo was sent a year before the g...Just noticed the memo was sent a year before the game, but it still doesn't change the fact it was sent.<BR/><BR/>The important thing is that it says any location accessible to staff members. Are the stands accessible? Yes, they can get seats I'm sure. Is my living room accessible? Yes, if I allow them entry.Samhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11281661636725229689noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4366604044123974220.post-58090747669076308782007-12-13T11:38:00.000-05:002007-12-13T11:38:00.000-05:00Um...like I said the first time, Sam wins. Stop t...Um...like I said the first time, Sam wins. Stop trying. It's not a Steelers vs. Patriots thing. It's just an anyone vs. Sam thing. I lose to him all the time. You learn to live with it.Pathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07630039200829526201noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4366604044123974220.post-29772470879009855012007-12-13T11:20:00.000-05:002007-12-13T11:20:00.000-05:00Anonymous jagoff,If not wearing your shirt in your...Anonymous jagoff,<BR/><BR/>If not wearing your shirt in your pants gained you a competitive advantage, then yes, it would be cheating. Although the style points may make up for it.<BR/><BR/>From <A HREF="http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/reiss_pieces/2007/12/videotaping_rul.html" REL="nofollow">Boston.com</A> --<BR/><BR/>In a memo to NFL head coaches and general managers on Sept. 6,Samhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11281661636725229689noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4366604044123974220.post-44275387486954315232007-12-13T10:52:00.000-05:002007-12-13T10:52:00.000-05:00"But it is in the rulebook. They cheated. Tarnish..."But it is in the rulebook. They cheated. Tarnished championships. Get over it."<BR/><BR/>It is not against the rules to film a team's signals. It is against the rules to film it where the Patriots did. <BR/><BR/>But even then...<BR/><BR/> It is against the NFL rulebook to wear your shirt outside of your pants. If you did- would that be cheating? Just because you broke a rule- doesn't mean Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4366604044123974220.post-2351766320855654972007-12-13T10:46:00.000-05:002007-12-13T10:46:00.000-05:00Sam wins. As always.Sam wins. As always.Pathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07630039200829526201noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4366604044123974220.post-56219014569088239802007-12-13T09:40:00.000-05:002007-12-13T09:40:00.000-05:00While I would never condone steroid use, the NFL's...While I would never condone steroid use, the NFL's steroid policy didn't come into effect until 1987.<BR/><BR/>Even if they did take them, the Steelers never broke any rules. If there was a clearly stated policy, something akin to "No video recording devices of any kind are permitted to be in use in the coaches' booth, on the field, or in the locker room during the game", then I might see where Samhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11281661636725229689noreply@blogger.com